They can also build good killers, which many elf teams can also do. Elf teams do not have anything like that. The Stormvermin have S access, and can take Guard. Since one GR has up to three such targets, and since the six-plus AG3/MA7 targets (18 squares, 5/6 chance), it's very hard to stop this. Not only are they capable of great opportunity plays, they can play keep-away very well, two of them delivering the ball 20 squares and earning a Comp on a 25/27 shot (with a TRR) with no chance of injury. Having good Gutter Runners makes it easy to buff the Throwers and Stormvermin, and to turn Linerat MVPs into tougher Linos and/or a kicker. They improve very quickly, and since the team can have four, they're easy to replace. The Gutter Runners are some of the best players in the game, and a good contender for the best value gold-for-gold, up there with the Chaos Warrior. Wandering Apothecaries and Bloodweiser Babes are also a great bargain. Against an overdog smash team, a Wizard is an all-but guaranteed tempo TD. Fezglitch is just amazing against speedy opposition, and fairly good against bash, and since they have cheap G-access players, they can easily get double-duty on a Bribe. If they get smacked down, they have the best stars in the game. Yes, their players turn over a lot, but they're cheap, they can make do with Journeymen, and their development curve is pretty wicked. Skaven are a great team for the long haul, despite their low MA. ![]() I think Skaven are one of the better teams, but a lot of your criticisms are legitimate. I'm probably playing them wrong (certainly I'm not enjoying them), any suggestions how they should be played? They are the most dice dependent team I've played IMO and while they can take the fight to the top teams with the dice behind them it doesn't take much for them to sink like a stone. When I lose the dice have turned against me (a series of 2's are often fatal, not just 1's) or the opponent has played a steady game without major mishap and just ground it out with often little the skaven can do. I'm finding that when I win either my opponent is unlucky (loose balls are great), a couple of high risk moves come off for me or I get ahead in the attrition war and score too many before they recover. The majority of the skaven can't dodge for toffee so it's suicide to try generally, there's limited access to agility skills so they can't blodge up and the only serious potential leap pieces are ST2 so throwing them into a cage is high risk. On defense the various elves can survive ok and slow down an opponents offense, mass blodge and AG4 means they can keep dodging away in front of the cage until the killer assault to rip out the ball. Once you've lost a handful of players then the scoring is much harder. Sure they can score better than most others, but there's a lot of pressure to score every time because they suck at defense (at least in my hands!). They're obviously not a bash team but I've found they lack the killer offense of the pro/wood/high elves and they can't do the dark elf trick of playing the opposite to your opponent (bash vs crunchy team, out-skill a bash team). ![]() ![]() ![]() Most polls I've seen rate the skaven right up there with the top teams but what is it that puts them there? I've recently started playing them in a league and have put in some practice online to prepare so I don't have a lot of experience with them (20 games or so, probably about 50-50 W/L).
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